Homophobia

[Someguy]

You know, I feel comfortable enough with everyone on this forum to bring this up.

I have always been a supporter of gay rights. I live in New York City and was very happy for my gay / lesbian brothers and sisters when gay marriage was passed. Unfortunately there is something that corrupts my attitude towards gay people:

I have never been comfortable around gay people. And by gay people, I'm talking about openly flaming guys that walk down the street, and you know they're gay. And unfortunately, I still sometimes refer to them as fags (don't get too worked up, I'm trying to make a point here).

It's pretty safe to say that I am not a fan of gay porn (obviously) and not a fan of seeing men kissing. Holding hands is okay, but there's still something that kinda bothers me about it.

There have been a couple guys I've met who seemed just as hederosexual as me, they like sports, like action movies and rock music, but they are gay. This never seemed to bother me as much. I'm assuming for every openly gay man walking down the street, there's probably another one in the closet who wants to keep his life private, and I respect that.

Why do I have slight homophobia? It could be that I grew up in a town and a time where being gay was considered bad (not necessiarly in an immoral relgious sense, just in that stupid way kids make fun of people and call eachother faggots for no reason.)

However, a friend of mine shared a better idea about it. He said I probably don't have a problem with gay people, I just have a problem with the obnoxiousness that sometimes comes with it. A few annoying experiences with gay people have affected my view of fags. (and I distinguish fags from gay people: gay guys simply like having sex with other guys. Fags have this whole flaming obnoxious personality that annoys the crap out of me). It could be the same as this: I meet a couple of Irish guys who are real pricks, and suddenly I assume all Irishmen are assholes (which clearly isn't the case... cause I'm Irish!

There could also be this peer-pressure that if you're gay, you have to act in this stereotypical faggoty way. Now that I think of it, there are a lot of strait people that act this way (*coughs* Justin Timberlake, The Jonas Brothers). Hederosexuals don't all act the same way, why should Homosexuals be pressured to act this way? I am a big fan of individuality, and very much against the idea of group mentality.

Well I've probably got the few gay members here pissed off at me, and frankly I don't blame 'em. But this is sincere: I've really tried to open my heart up to having gay friends, but the problem is, I don't seem to have anything in common with them. We don't share the same taste in movies, music (I hate Lady GaGa), sports, or anything. I really don't give a crap about fashion or hairstyles, or anything like that. I really would like to get over this immature homophobia I have, but it doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon.

So... any advice.

[Jake]

Wasn't pissed off when I started texting this out ten minutes ago. I am now it's deleted it all and I have to redo it all.

First off, I hate all use of the word faggot.

I also dislike the gay stereotype and those who deliberately try to be like that once they come out. If you saw me in the street you would have no idea unless I told you.

Music is no way to go by it either. I listen to thrash, death, symphonic, power, viking, black and experimental metal. I hate that mainstream stuff like GaGa and that dubstep stuff.

One of my best mates is homophobic but he hides it.

Not targeting anyone here but I think all homophobes are pathetic.

[yergieglover]

You literally use the words fag and faggot to describe homosexuals in a derogatory manner. Even if you don't want to come out and say it, you're a bigot.

I'm married to a woman, but I am bisexual. You'd probably never know unless I made an offhand comment about a guy or just told you outright that I was bi. But according to you, we wouldn't be friends anymore.

And as far as music goes (what's with the GaGa hate here ), I'll agree that it is a really awful barometer for someone's sexuality.

Maybe you just need to grow up and realize that other people are different and that's okay. Things that offend your delicate sensibilities exist, and they're not going away.

[Someguy]

I also dislike the gay stereotype and those who deliberately try to be like that once they come out. If you saw me in the street you would have no idea unless I told you.

One of my best mates is homophobic but he hides it.

Not targeting anyone here but I think all homophobes are pathetic.

I'm very glad to hear that you also dislike the Gay stereotype. If I was gay, I would hate it too. I hate everyone who refers to Irishmen as drunk idiots, or Jews as cheap (I'm both Irish and Jewish; I don't drink, and I don't consider myself that cheap). So it seems like you're kind of in the same boat as me. Not necessarily having a problem with gay people as much as stereotypes.

Any bigot is pathetic. I'd feel a lot better about myself if I could get over this stupid homophobia I have, but I'm pretty sure it has more to do with this stereotype culture than it does people's actual sexual orientations.

You literally use the words fag and faggot to describe homosexuals in a derogatory manner. Even if you don't want to come out and say it, you're a bigot.

I'm married to a woman, but I am bisexual. You'd probably never know unless I made an offhand comment about a guy or just told you outright that I was bi. But according to you, we wouldn't be friends anymore.

Maybe you just need to grow up and realize that other people are different and that's okay. Things that offend your delicate sensibilities exist, and they're not going away.

Hold on, I said at the very beginning I support gay rights and accept that people are different. A person's sexual orientation is not a problem for me. It's the stereotypical attitude that I am uncomfortable with.

That's fine, I admit I'm bigoted about it. But at least I'm honest about it and trying to be methodical about the whole thing.

I hate any bigoted words, but unfortunately, when you grow up hearing everybody call each other "faggots" it's hard to shake that. I don't call anybody a faggot to their face or even refer to someone as such, unless it's somebody who really pissed me off. One time this obnoxious drunk guy referred to my black friend as "Dark one." And I kept refering to that guy as a "faggot." I've even been called a fag and I don't like it.

As far as you and I being friends are concerned... Well, what kind of stuff are you into? Are you into action movies, sports, rock music, liberal minded? Or if we have different opinions about any of this stuff, can we have an interesting conversation about it? I'm always up for a fascinating discussion with a political conservative. See that's what I look for in a friendship. Unfortunately, I don't seem to share this with many stereotypical gay men.

But being gay or bi in and of itself wouldn't deter a friendship. I had a friend of mine who I never knew was gay, he was very private about it. Until one day he mentioned it in passing. That didn't bother me that much, we're still friends and it's all good.

[yergieglover]

It's actually pretty easy to stop saying pejoratives. You simply remove them from your vocabulary, and consciously make an effort to take that word out of things you say.

And what is this obsession with the stereotypes? It just reeks of wanting to justify something that makes you uncomfortable. It reads like you want to fit people into little boxes and not interact with them if they fit into a box you don't like. And the fact that men who act in a feminine manner somehow offends you strikes me as annoying.

You're a bigot because you have such an ingrained subscription to traditional masculine ideals means that anyone who acts out of that narrow definition is a threat to you, whether you see it as one or not. Again, you need to grow up.

[Jake]

And I think the arguing now needs to stop :P

Let's keep this a civilised discussion.

[Rommeltje]

I think it was actually quite civilized so far. Have you ever seen Youtube discussions? Or the IMDb message boards?

[Jake]

They're all the same!

Just glad I don't get that stuff on my videos :L

[yergieglover]

There's not much "discussion" that needs to take place when someone is simply adhering to an archaic set of ideas about gender.

[Someguy]

Well I knew this discussion would spark some heavy emotions. I respect your frustration yergieglover.

However, I myself have found this discussion very enlightening. I think discussing this issue and trying to put my thoughts into words has cleared up my so called "Homophobia." I don't think it is Homophobia as much as it's negativity about a certain attitude and group mentality.

As far as having "an ingrained subscription to traditional masculine ideals," I actually wouldn't deny that. In fact, I was just watching the latest trailer for the Justin Timberlake movie (which is a discussion on the glove forum) thinking, "My God, what happened to all the good action movie stars: Schwarzenegger, Stallone, Wills, Chuck Norris, etc. If I'm a bigot for rather watching Sylvester Stallone beat the shit out of people than the morons from Twilight, so be it.